369KrishnaPrabhupada
Video IIntroduction
By Upendranatha Dasa
Please understand that these Videos, some where tests, and other, where interviews, but you will see myself on how I work in my office. A very specific one is in production, and will be posted, sometime in 2025; on the other hand, for the time being these pags will serve it’s purpose, of a personal nature, introduce myself to you who have come across this website, or those who I have met on Face Book for the first time.. Jai Sri Nam ….Never forget that Sri-Nam is Identical in all respects, and aspects with Sri Krishna, there is no difference whats sso ever.
In addition you will ssee photos of a Historic Nature in Srila Prabhupada’s Movement of 1966 to 1978. One of a Kind and Original
Text & Audio About Us
Forum: Essays & Poetry
Narration of Books By Srila Prabhupada & Past Acaryas
Books By Upendranath dasa
In Vaikuntha Not Even the Leaves Fall
The Origin of the Jiva Controversy in Vrindavana 1963-1996
By Kundali & Satyanarayana dasa
Audio & Video Presentations
Prabhupada Nectar Downloads
Srila Prabhupada Chanting Japa with Disciples
Essential Information Instructions
Introduction to The New and Improved Saragrahi.Org
Hare Krishna! Jai Sri Nam! Jai Srila Prabhupada
TEMPORARY (COMMENT:
This Introduction is Currently being re-written to reflect changes in new version of Saragrahi.Org that is in the process of revision, in real-time. Changes in Layout & Format, and Content; will change on a hourly bases. Please excuse me for any inconvience in this regard.
I am currently re-writing the components of this “Essential Information & Instructions” Website Content Page, which is the First of 8 such Website Content Pages. This effort is required in order to reflect the changes which gives birth to a new revised and enhanced Saragrahi.Org experience. I expect to compete the revision, and posting all the material not yeat poste, some time in the year 2025
Nevertheless, “First-Time Visitors to this Website” are encouraged to read the contents of components that follow in the following Accordion Contaten Links (identified by a Green-Leaf on the Left side). Just click or touch with you finger, and the contents will drop down below the Header.
Also, you have the option of listening to the old version of Page in Audio which you can find below, in the Header Item entitled “About Saragrahi.Org in Audio”. In this case it is better than nothing if you will.
(Please Note: Today is 09/09/2024, and I am re-writing this “About-Us” portion of this Website. So, the Audio Version, at this time, is not up to date; nevertheless, it will still useful. After I finish the re-write, I will produce a new audio version, and will then delete this message.)
END OF TEMPORARY COMMENT
Dear Saragrahi Reader.
Please make yourself familiar with the “How to Navigate the Saragrahi.Org Website ” page, and the “How to Contact Saragrahi.Org’s Facilitator”, which are both found on the “Essential Information & Instructions” Content Page (Link Button labeled “ FYI & Instruction” in the Link Box Labeled “About Saragrahi.Org”, which can be accessed from any “Website Content Links” Accordion Link, which you will find on at the top of every Web Page on this Website.
There you will find the new and improved Saragrahi policies regarding this forum. If you have any comments and suggestions, they will be most welcomed. Below you will find a general letter written by myself, “The Facilitator” of this forum. It basically describes and sets the mood for the reopening of this forum.
We should not assume that people are insincere. But why should we assume they are sincere? There is no sound reasoning to assume one way or the other. What makes a lot of sense is that we let their words/actions speak for themselves. If we find that the words and actions are sincere, fine, and if we find them insincere, equally well, and good.
Saragrahi is not one of those “why cannot we all just get along” type of places. This is a discussion group. And the theme running through all the discussions, hopefully, is discerning between shadow and substance. Some of you are keener to exercise this muscle, so to speak, and so you may be willing to risk being wrong ,and say your piece in an open forum. Others are more comfortable being “safe” by being silent, or making presentations in a manner which they consider “palatable”. However, the exercise is to dissect things to see if they hold actual merit.
The point of this exercise is to develop the ability to extract that which has substance, and is valuable from the fantasy, the castle in the air, the daydream, the illusion, the pipedream, the rainbow, the whim, the whimsy, the wishful thinking and, from the fanciful and extravagant plan or desire. And in doing so, learning to stand with one’s convictions. This is not just a matter of assessing the content of things, but sometimes the people who advance the ideas as well, which is something we all do anyway. Nevertheless, some absurd social convention has it that we do not do this openly. But social convention is never the first concern of any Saragrahi. Most social conventions are servants of group illusions, after all.
What we have here is an open forum in which those who submit any type of article will stand or fall on their own merit and at their own risk. And those who read the postings are totally free to choose what they want to read and disregard the rest. As facilitator of this forum, I will do likewise, choose what I want to read, choose what I write, choose how I want to present my views, and so can everyone else. Why, then, should anyone observing (including the facilitators) any such exchange be negatively influenced; like saying they are disappointed, say that it is sick, say that it is offensive, or feel that they do not like what is being said, etc.? If anyone has such sentiments, then it is their right. However, it is also their right to, or not to, reply. The onlookers (including the facilitators) can choose to follow the exchange or give it a miss. As facilitator of this forum, I certainly feel no obligation to be a crowd-pleaser in a debate-type scenario, and neither should anyone else.
If you are in an exchange with someone, you reserve the right to play your shots according to your lights, not by anticipating the onlookers’ (including the facilitators) point of view and then make your moves. It is fascinating to see that people feel that because they are observing two people in an intense discussion, that the participants must anticipate the audience (or the facilitators) and play to the audience (or the facilitators), rather than deal with the situation as they see fit. Politicians do that, because truth is not their agenda, getting elected to office is their agenda. But for us, truth is the agenda, as we believe it, not according to the masses.
If a reader does not care for someone’s approach or point of view, then the reader can move on to something that does appeal to him/her. Or they can counter with a reply. This makes good sense and it would be wonderful to hear any alternative that makes even more sense. You have complete freedom to choose who, and what you want to read, what you want to write, so that you will not feel alienated or annoyed to the extent that you would want to give up the whole website. Our advice is that you should simply skip over the postings that do not interest you, for whatever reason. After all, you do the same thing reading a newspaper or magazine, so why should Saragrahi be any different?
What is the value of condemning anyone else, what to speak of condemning just because he or she does not agree with our way of thinking? Hence the following is a response to the basic question of “condemning” people, or to be more accurate, condemning the ideas of people.
The value in dissecting something, and calling a spade a spade, is that we learn not to be taken in by shadow, believing it to be substance. The value is in our refusal to be taken in by the sweet and plausible lies that tend to slip by us daily, in the guise of truth, of wisdom, when in reality, half-truths are also lies, what to speak of complete lies. That is the value.
Nevertheless, it is not a big deal if someone feels smug about being able to separate truth from falsity. It would not bother anyone at all. In any case, a smug sense of satisfaction is hardly the issue. Learning to discern truth from illusion, even at the risk of error, that is the satisfaction. As facilitator of this forum, I would say that those who get alienated and shut down by animated discussion are probably simply not fit for the Saragrahi-type enterprise.
Any comments in this regard would gladly be posted for as facilitator of this forum I think that this would be a great way to give rebirth, so to speak, to this forum which started to die in early 2001, and which has been “dead” for over 21 years now, because of time, place, and circumstances; not making an excuse, on indicating that there were justifiable reason..
Upendranath Dasa 09/09/2024
How to Contact Saragrahi.Org's Facilitator
Hare Krishna! Jai Sri Nam! Jai Srila Prabhupada
If you, for any reason, have a need to contact me. The following is my contact details; .at the present time.
Moreover, if you have an Essay, Paper, or Poem that you would like to have posted on this Website, Please submit it in MS-Word or PDF Document Format, and send it to the Following e-mail address or Phone Number
Upendranath Dasa;
Email me at:
updindia@gmail.com
My Phone Number is:
+1 424 229 0082
How to Navigate the Saragrahi.Org Website
(NOTICE! : These instructions use the old layout of the website. However they all have many of, but not all, of the componets as the New Saragrahi.Org Content Page. In the new format/layout of the new Saragrahi.Org Content Pages, and their componets of web-pages. Nevertheless, you will find these instruction somewhat still helpfull in learing how to navigate this website. In the comming weeks, I do plan to revise these instruction with the new formatting, and the various navigation componets that are being used in the New Saragrahi.Org Content Pages and their componets. I thank you for your patients in this regard, and please understand that this effort is a lone one, and there is a lot to do, and I have to prioritize the work that need to be done in the remodeling of this website, so to speak, which is a project that is on going, and will take until the end of 2025 to complete, if I am destined to do it by myself…Jai Sri Nam)
The Following, are the Particulars, Which are Used to Navigate This Website
Accordion Menus
This Website has multiple Accordion Menu’s (AM’s), which are used to display:
- “Text”,
- “Links to Website Text Pages”,
- ““Links to Website Content Menus”.
AM’s are either One Single AM “Item”, or Multiple AM “Items”.
Single AM, Notice the Round Icon with Golden Leaf, and Magenta Background
Multiple Item AM, with 5 Items
The “AM’s), facilitate the above, in a collapsed, condensed manner, allowing the saving of space, while still presenting an abundance of “Content”; all on the same Website Page.
An AM can be intensified, by an “Icon” on the left side. The Icon, has a “Light-Golden” Colored “Leaf” in the middle, with a “Magenta” Colored-Background
Like an Accordion, the AM Menus, can be opened (it expands), and closed (it collapses)
With the Accordion, visitors can scan the “Item” titles, and choose to expand that AM “Item”, only if it is of interest.
You can distinguish an AM “item”, because it will be enclosed with a “Gold or Light Blue” Grooved Boarders.
The AM “Item” title contains a Brief Description of the Contents of that AM “Item”.
Also, the AM “Item”, if it is a Single-Item; it may have a Dark-Blue “Shadow”
Grouped, Multiple AM’s normally do not have Shadows.
How “AM’s” Works
If you “Hover” your Mouse “Over” any type of AM, or “Click” on the AM, the Icon Leaf will turn to Magenta-color, with a “Light-Blue” Background. This color change will remain until the “Item” is “Closed” (Collapsed).
Right-Click with your mouse on any “Item”, of any of the “AM’s” on this Website; and the contents of that “Item” will “Open”, and drop down like an Accordion below the “Item”.
Right-Click with your mouse on any “Item” that is “Open”, and it will Collapse up, and Close like an Accordion.
Notice that when an AM “Item” is closed, it has a Plus-sign (+), at the Right margin. And when the AM “Item” is opened (Collapsed), it has a Minius-sign (–).
OR.
If you have a Smart-Phone or Tablet, or a Laptop, or Desktop PC, that has a Touch-Screen; tap on the desired “Item” with your finger, and the same will happen as described in the instructions above for a mouse.
Link “Tabs” or also known as “Buttons”
Links Buttons, are all “Rectangles”, of different widths, with “Thin Light-Green Boarders”, and may or may not have the corners rounded (radiused).
Buttons can be identified, by an “Small Pointed ‘Thick Arrow Pointer Icon” at the “Upper-Right-Hand-Corner”. See Examples Below:
If you Hover or Click the Button with you Mouse, or your Finger, the Button, will have an Animation “Peeling” the Back-Arrow from the Top-Right-Corner Icon, until it fills the whole Button with a Black-Colored Background. In the case of Smart-Phones, there will only be a “Small” Black Rectangle that Peels Back across the Top-Right-Corner of the Link Button.
Link Buttons, normally have a White Colored Background. These Buttons usually are Links to “Text-Content-Pages” or “Content-Menu-Pages”.
With the exception of the Buttons labeled “Previous” and “Next”; these Buttons will have a “Light-Blue” Colored Background. These Link Buttons, Link to the “Next-Page”, or the “Previous-Page”, in a Sequence of Website-Pages.
“Previous” and “Next” Example
This example has one Button Link with a White Background, and two Button Links with a Light-Blue Background.
There are many Content Menus, that will be presented directly from this Website Content Page.
These Content Menus contain the Standard Link format, which is Underlined, in Bold, and Font-Color is Magenta. See Example below:
This type of Link is executed with a Right-Click with your mouse, or touch or tap with your finger, on a Smart-phone, Tablet, Laptop, or Desktop PC with a Touch-Screen.
Temporary Notice
Until I complete the Modifications to all the Pages (over 900), there will still be some other formats of Links, that I was experimenting with until, I settled to the ones that I have presented. The following is a brief description of them.
Link Format 1: This one is a sperate and individual “Button” Link. Its Text color maybe Magenta, White, Yellow, or Gold, and it has a “arrowhead” spinning, very quickly, around the Link description, while leaving its trail behind. Engaging this Link will cause it to “Glow” in a neon-bright color by hovering you mouse over it, or touching it lightly with you finger if you have a touch-screen Device. Execution of this “Link” is caused by a Right-Click, with your mouse, or taping on it, with your finger, if you have a touch-screen Device.
Link Format 2 & 3: These are considered “Grouped Buttons” Links. Usually, there are either a Group of 2 or 3 Button. This format has the following definitions.
Link Format 2: The following Links, with these descriptions, will return you to the “Website Content Page”
- Website Contents
- Saragrahi.Org
- WC
- Contents
Link Format 3: The following Link Formats with these descriptions, will either cause you to go to the “Next: Segment (Page), or return to the “Previous” Segment (Page).
“P”, or “< P”, or “Previous” = Will take you to the Previous Segment (page).
“N”, or “>N”, or “Next” = Will take you the Next Segment (page).
Home-Page Screen Shot
Home-Page Link Buttons, and AM
The Home-Page has Four (4) Link Buttons (See Screen Photo Above):
- Website-Contents: Link to the Website-Content Page.
- Site-Navigation: Link to the Page giving Instruction on how to Navigate this Website.
- About-Us: Link to a sequence of Multiply Pages, which explain, the Purpose and Agenda of this Website.
- Contact-Us: Link to a Page explain how you can contact the facilitator of Saragrahi.org.
It also has one Single AM “Item”, with Heading-Title:
“CLICK” on this Header, to Hear About-Us in “Audio”
Executing this AM (See Screen Photo Below), will produce below this AM Item Header, an “Audio Playlist” of the Multiple Pages, in Audio, that represent the Text Pagse, of the “About-Us” Link Button. This is the first attempt, in have an AI Human Voices read the text contents of the of Pages on this Website.
(At this time, I have to re-generate the AI Voice Audio Files to match the current Text Contents of the “About-Us” Pages.)
Home Page Audio-Playlist Screen Shot
Website Content Page Screen Shot
The “Website-Contents” Page consist of 2 Multiple-Item “AM’s”, and Ten (10) Button Links.
One AM is at the Top of the Left Section on Computers or Tablets, or the First Section on a Smart Phone.
The other one is at the Top of the Right Section on Computers or Tablets, or the Second Section on a Smart Phone.
Left Section of the “Website Contents” Page
Top Part of Left Section:
The first Four AM’s contain the First Four of the “Nine Featured Presentations”, Numbers 1-4, written by Srila Prabhupada Disciples, and which all, are big sized-books, ranging from 400 to 900 pages long.
The last AM contains the other 5 Featured Presentation, which comprise the “Aspects of Vaisnava Theory & Practice”; Featured Presentations Numbers 5-9, written by Srila Prabhupada Disciples; each a small size book, ranging from 200 to 300 pages long.
For this Website, these books manuscripts, have been Edited into Sections or Chapters; each having Multiple small “Segments” consisting of 1 to 6 pages of each book. This will facilitate the reader to read one “Segment” or more, as they desire.
Bottom Part of Left Section
At the bottom of this Section, your will find 2 Video Play List Button Links, which are Large Long Button Links, and are self-explanatory in their Contents.
The Last item in this Section is a One Audio File Player, of Srila Prabhupada Chanting Japa.
Right Sections of the “Website Contents” Page
Top Part of Right Section
The Top-Section is entitled “Krishna-Katha”; which is Multiple-Item “AM”; which contains 6 “Items..
The 5 “Items” are:
- Audio-Versions of Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita.
- Audio-Versions of Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad-bhagavatam.
- Audio-Versions of Srila Prabhupada’s Caitanya-caritamrta.
- Audio-Versions of Other Books by Srila Prabhupada.
- Audio-Versions of Books By Past Acaryas: Srila Vyasa-deva, Srila Sanatana Goswami, Srila Jiva Goswami, Srila Vrindavana Dasa Thakur, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswat Prabhupada.
The Middle Part of the Right Section, is entitled “Sadhu-sanga”
It contains Three (3)) Long Button Links:
- “Contributing Authors”: A Link to all Contributing Authors, Menu’s listing their all-individual Contribution.
- “All Contribution: A Link to Menu of all Contributions posted to Website.
- “How to Make Contribution”.
Bottom Part, of Right Section
At the Bottom of this Right Section are the “Kirtana Audio Playlists” Long Button Links.
Website Content Pages Description
This page has not been written at this time. I will be written when the Website Conversions design, formats, and layouts have been established to a high degree; hence at that time I will do the needful. I thank you ina dvance for you understanding and patients’ in this regard.
Segment 4 : This Website, is a “Work and Progress”
This Website, is a “work and progress” endeavor. There are several features to this website, and each feature has considerable material to be presented, and only so much can be done, daily. FYI, I am 77-year-old, have survived a Cardiac-arrest 3 years ago, I am also legally Blind, with my left eye totally blind, and with the little and very poor vision I have in my right eye, I can only tolerate the strain for a few hours, and them the vision starts to get really “foggy”, along with other weird-visual phenomena; due to the retina becoming swollen. My right eye has only 5 degrees of peripheral vision (normally all humans with good vision have 270 degree in both eyes). To add icing on that cake, I also lost my Kidney Function in 2013, and Dialysis treatments 3 time a week, have kept me alive.
Nevertheless, I have vowed to my spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and Lord Sri Krishna, that I will complete this effort, even if it kills me. Going to my Dialysis treatments, and numerous VA Hospital Clinic appointment, takes many hours that I am not able to work on this project. However, my nature is to use the remainder of my waking hours, until I am not able to continue, and I must take rest.
Hence, I humbly request assistance, which can be rendered virtually and on-line through the Internet, 24/7. Moreover, I am hoping that those who can write and communicate this wonderful, and superlative, Gaudiya Vaisnavas Philosophy, and Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, will step up and contribute to the purpose of this Web-site.
I have a very powerful Web-Building software tool, by the name of “Elementor Pro”. The Elementor page builder is used not only by developers, but also by solo-entrepreneurs who run websites on their own. Elementor has many professionals who use it in their practice of Web-site Designers and Developers. Nevertheless, what makes it stand out from the competition, is the intuitive and snappy UI (User-Interface). It is superiors to Wixs & Go-Daddy to name a few.
It is easy to use, even for users without any design or development background. I used to be a Business Computer System Consultant before I retired, and went to live in Vrindavana India in 1993. I have been able to build this first version of this Web-site, with knowledgeable understanding of what I estimate is only 10% of this software’s capabilities. I researched and found that in 2018 there was around 8 million users, and the beginning of 2019 brought that total to around 10 million. The most recent figure I could find, is that it had reached 12 million users at the end of 2019. As you may be able to figure out, I am hosting this Web-site at WordPress.com; which is used by many Blog-er, and Pod-casters.
In addition, I am looking for anyone who may have the skill in programing a “block-chain” application; which will take this Website to a “higher-level” on the internet. A “White Paper” will be written in order to stimulate this project into existence
The facilitator of this website, will welcome any assistance in completing it. The development of this Website, is “Cloud-Based”, and is done in “Real-Time”. Hence, anyone, on this Planet Earth, can participate in its development.
Thank you for visiting our site. We hope that you will find much of value to your spiritual life on these pages, and that many of you will participate with us in examining the philosophy and practice of Krishna consciousness for the benefit of all.
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna,
Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama,
Rama Rama, Hare Hare
Free Speech & Civility
Segments 1 Part 1 : The Komala & Madhyama-adhikari Divide, “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life, your right to say It”
In relation to free speech, a wise woman[1] said:
“I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life, your right to say it.”
This attitude is profound. It attends to one of the most basic needs in thinking persons, and demonstrates genuine respect for the individual in spite of whatever differences there may be.
The following is taken from an article posted on the “Old Saragrahi.org”, in which this became an issue for some. It expresses the sincere mood of a person resisting, and protesting oppression; a person setting boundaries in order to avoid being violated:
This individual wrote:
“You want me to walk to your tune, and that is what I protest and resent, far more so than your point of view; for however you may justify it, the end result is that you, and the civility brigade, want me to function according to your lights, your realization, trying to make decisions for me, that are my call to make. Meanwhile, I want to function according to my realization. You are trying to dictate to me, and at the same time you imply, that you desire free speech. Well then, why do articles by you and others try to make me conform to your conception about how I ought to speak? Is that free?”
The “New Saragrahi.org” facilitators wish to express this website’s specific vision and position about free speech and civility.
If we fail to honor this basic need of thinking men and women, are not we being uncivil?
Put another way, if on the plea of preventing feathers from being ruffled, we establish rules that deny a person the right to exercise his individuality, “are not we ruffling his feathers?”
And, ironically, in denying a person the right to speak as he chooses, “are not we, while deliberating on the most personal philosophy, behaving impersonally?
Bhaktivinoda Thakura makes a distinction between two kinds of mindsets of two kinds of spiritual seekers, the komala shraddha and the madhyama adhikari.
In a nutshell, the komala shraddhas (those with tender faith) tend to be very literal and simplistic in their spirituality, cleaving to tradition and so forth.
And the madhyamas; well, they tend to require a rational basis for their beliefs. They find great appeal in statements such as “worships Me with his intelligence.” They get inspiration from things such as: “speaks with logic and reason based on shastra (scripture), and has faith (shraddha) that is not blind”.
Bhaktivinoda reckons that preaching that is inspiring to the komalas does not inspire the madhyamas, who find it somewhat infantile at least some of the time. And preaching that is inspiring to the madhyamas, may ruin the faith of the komalas. Moreover, Bhaktivinoda holds that most of the shastras and tikas (commentaries), etc. have been written for the komalas, or at least largely with them in mind.
Now, both of these types of seekers are eligible for Krishna bhakti. Let us be clear on this point, and I will soon cite Srila Prabhupada on this very point. However, having said that; let me point out that these two types are not equally eligible for bhakti. I repeat: The komala shraddha is not as eligible for bhakti as the madhyama. Bhaktivinoda considers the madhyama on a better footing of eligibility than the komala shraddhas.
Hence his choice of “tender faith” to classify them.
(Continued in Part 2)
Segments 1 Part 2
However, at any given moment in time, the komalas invariably outnumber the madhyamas. And there is a tendency for them to think that because of numerical majority that they have a better take on eligibility. They filter philosophy so that they translate their simple faith into a virtue. They think:
“We do not believe in all this rationality and so forth. We already love Krishna so much. We already accept so many things in the shastra. We do not have all these doubts and questions. We are fixed up”.
They speak and quote the high-minded words of others without an iota of realization and would cut a comical figure if they were not so tragic in their skewered understanding. Comical because they remind the madhyama of a child putting on his father’s shoes, coat and hat, and bumbling along trying to look, sound, and act as an adult, but ending up only as an amusement. But they become tragic, because they are really stuck in that komala place. Soft faith. Whereas the madhyama attains firm faith because of understanding with clear logic and reason, based on the shastra. He has unshakable faith.
Komalas tend to make a mess of the scriptural reasoning in order to bolster their belief, their blind faith, which they also manage to convince themselves is not at all blind, but the real thing. One komala I know, upon reading about Bhaktivinoda’s classification of komala and madhyama, he said,
“That was only in the early stage of his writings, later he gave this up”
The virtue of this argument is that it allowed the komala to remain content as a komala. And to believe that later on Bhaktivinoda actually reversed his view on the komala/madhyama divide.
Despite (or because of) this ability to twist their perceptions, Bhaktivinoda calls them persons of tender faith, komala shraddha.
A madhyama, seeking other madhyamas for association to discuss the Absolute Truth on the basis of the mat citta mad gata pranah sloka of the Gita, will canvass far and wide. Madhyamas will give a chance to people to find out if they are komalas or madhyamas by inclination. In the end, however, the madhyamas focus on exchanges with other madhyamas rather than harm the faith of the komalas who may pitch up from time to time and even want to float arguments for blind faith, which some are more adept than others at hiding. They usually try to present their anti-rational stance as a superior understanding of God, superior faith and so on. Meanwhile, God Himself is saying, “The topmost devotee has faith that is not blind.” Why? Because such devotees have a rational approach to bhakti (logic and reason based on the shastra).
In the Gita we find this verse (10:10):
“To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.”
In the purport Prabhupada explains the madhyama eligibility in the course of explaining buddhi-yoga, which he says is a “very significant” word in the verse. In fact, he equates bhakti yoga with buddhi yoga:
“In this verse the word buddhi-yogam is very significant. We may remember that in the Second Chapter the Lord, instructing Arjuna, said that He had spoken to him of many things and that He would instruct him in the way of buddhi-yoga. Now buddhi-yoga is explained. Buddhi-yoga itself is action in Krishna consciousness; that is the highest intelligence. Buddhi means intelligence, and yoga means mystic activities or mystic elevation. When one tries to go back home, back to Godhead, and takes fully to Krishna consciousness in devotional service, his action is called buddhi yoga. In other words, buddhi-yoga is the process by which one gets out of the entanglement of this material world. The ultimate goal of progress is Krishna. People do not know this; therefore, the association of devotees and a bona fide spiritual master are important. One should know that the goal is Krishna, and when the goal is assigned, then the path is slowly but progressively traversed, and the ultimate goal is achieved.”
Then, two paragraphs later, Prabhupada explains the komala shraddha platform, stating that if the person is “not intelligent enough to make progress, then Krishna from within gives him instructions.” He mentions this point twice, to emphasize that the lack of intelligence can be a serious matter. And the implication is that while those persons may be successful in their bid for Krishna consciousness, they are not quite as eligible as the persons he described in the first paragraph of the same purport.
“A person may have a bona fide spiritual master and may be attached to a spiritual organization, but still, if he is not intelligent enough to make progress, then Krishna from within gives him instructions so that he may ultimately come to Him without difficulty. The qualification is that a person always engage himself in Krishna consciousness and with love and devotion render all kinds of services. He should perform some sort of work for Krishna, and that work should be with love. If a devotee is not intelligent enough to make progress on the path of self-realization but is sincere and devoted to the activities of devotional service, the Lord gives him a chance to make progress and ultimately attain to Him.”
So, we have the komala party and the madhyama party and if we belong to one group, we are advised to leave the other group be, and vice versa.
FOOT NOTE:
[1] “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” is said to have come from Voltaire. It is not from Voltaire, the 18th-century philosopher, but it was a paraphrase from a biographer named Evelyn Beatrice Hall of what she thought Voltaire was thinking. Paraphrasing means ‘to state something written or spoken in different words, especially in a shorter and simpler form to make the meaning clearer.
Segment 2 Part 1: Srila Prabhupada has something to say about 'Blind Faith
Moreover, Srila Prabhupada has something to say about “blind faith” in Purport to Bhagavad-gita 17.2.
“The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: According to the modes of nature acquired by the embodied soul, one’s faith can be of three kinds—in goodness, in passion or in ignorance. Now hear about this.”
PURPORT
“Those who know the rules and regulations of the scriptures but out of laziness or indolence give up following these rules and regulations are governed by the modes of material nature. According to their previous activities in the mode of goodness, passion or ignorance, they acquire a nature which is of a specific quality. The association of the living entity with the different modes of nature has been going on perpetually; since the living entity is in contact with material nature, he acquires different types of mentality according to his association with the material modes. But this nature can be changed if one associates with a bona fide spiritual master and abides by his rules and the scriptures. Gradually, one can change his position from ignorance to goodness, or from passion to goodness. The conclusion is that blind faith in a particular mode of nature cannot help a person become elevated to the perfectional stage. One has to consider things carefully, with intelligence, in the association of a bona fide spiritual master. Thus, one can change his position to a higher mode of nature.”
Devotees have a rational approach to bhakti (logic and reason based on the shastra).
In the Bhagavad-gita we find this verse (10:10):
“To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.”
In the purport Prabhupada basically explains the madhyama eligibility in the course of explaining buddhi-yoga, which he says is a “very significant” word in the verse. In fact, he equates bhakti yoga with buddhi yoga:
“In this verse the word buddhi-yogam is very significant. We may remember that in the Second Chapter the Lord, instructing Arjuna, said that He had spoken to him of many things and that He would instruct him in the way of buddhi-yoga. Now buddhi-yoga is explained. Buddhi-yoga itself is action in Krishna consciousness; that is the highest intelligence. Buddhi means intelligence, and yoga means mystic activities or mystic elevation. When one tries to go back home, back to Godhead, and takes fully to Krishna consciousness in devotional service, his action is called buddhi yoga. In other words, buddhi-yoga is the process by which one gets out of the entanglement of this material world. The ultimate goal of progress is Krishna. People do not know this; therefore, the association of devotees and a bona fide spiritual master are important. One should know that the goal is Krishna, and when the goal is assigned, then the path is slowly but progressively traversed, and the ultimate goal is achieved.”
Then, two paragraphs later, Prabhupada basically explains the komala shraddha platform, stating that if the person is “not intelligent enough to make progress, then Krishna from within gives him instructions.” He mentions this point twice, to emphasize that the lack of intelligence can be a serious matter. And the implication is that while those persons may be successful in their bid for Krishna consciousness, they are not quite as eligible as the persons he described in the first paragraph of the same purport.
“A person may have a bona fide spiritual master and may be attached to a spiritual organization, but still, if he is not intelligent enough to make progress, then Krishna from within gives him instructions so that he may ultimately come to Him without difficulty. The qualification is that a person always engage himself in Krishna consciousness and with love and devotion render all kinds of services. He should perform some sort of work for Krishna, and that work should be with love. If a devotee is not intelligent enough to make progress on the path of self-realization but is sincere and devoted to the activities of devotional service, the Lord gives him a chance to make progress and ultimately attain to Him.”
(Continued in Part 2)
Segments 2 Part 2
So, we have the komala party, and the madhyama party, and if we belong to one group, we are advised to leave the other group be, and vice versa. In light of all this, understand that this site will give the opportunity for anyone to determine their inclination in this regard.
By the very name, Saragrahi, this is a site for madhyamas not the komalas.
So, if komalas did show up, and were to find out that this is not for them and leave, what is the difficulty?
We see no difficulty at all. It is only a difficulty if we were invested in bleeding-heart notions about the matters that this Website is concerned about. But Bhaktivinoda did not confuse a bleeding heart, with compassion. He even said his book was not for komalas. And so, is this site.
But if a bunch of komalas show up and try to make this into their facility, rationalizing their bid with sentiments about compassion, tolerance, the mission of Lord Chaitanya, not losing the newcomers, and so forth, then we see a lot of difficulty because the site becomes “Saragrahi”, in name only. Yet another Internet haven for devotees whose main merit is hovering in the same smelling, and extremely unpleasant space, for the last 45 years, and not in fact learning to be “the brain of the social body.” Why cannot we have some facility for achieving this function?
Komalas are mired in rutted thinking, convention, the social parampara, pseudo-substance, clichés, because they lack the brain capacity for independent thoughtfulness. They invariably parrot philosophy. They do not hold the promise to be the true intelligent class. This is our philosophy; it is not some brutal judgment. They are not keen to become critical thinkers in other words. So Bhaktivinoda held that discourse, that is inspiring to them is simply trash to the madhyama, and preaching that inspires the madhyama, may harm the faith of the komalas.
Saragrahi.org is a site for madhyamas. It is also for aspiring madhyamas, those who understand their komala situation or inclination, but desire to advance to the platform of the madhyamas. If you are such a person, come here and learn, read the presentations, and ask questions, and express your doubts; and I can assure you that your questions will be answered, and your doubts will be dispelled, by those who are madhyamas. To associate and exchange ideas in an atmosphere of critical thinking. So, if this does not work for “everyone” that should not be a surprise. Why lament about it?
Is not this elitist?
Not at all. It is no more elitist than the simple recognition of the fact that philosophy, I mean serious analytical dialogue about philosophy, the practice of hardheaded realism (which does not mean or imply absence of a soft heart) is for the few, and that is simply a fact of life. For the masses, kirtan and prasadam.
But the mass does not know this, you see. So, the mass will show up here from time to time, and they will see, that here critical thinking is practiced, and social convention moves to the back row, and they will opt out, and that is good for those who are keen to be Saragrahis.
When there is kirtan and prasadam, then “everyone” can be happy. When there is philosophy, then “everyone” should not start chattering all at once. Komalas can listen in, or go to another part of town. Why is this problematic in any way whatsoever?
The success of this site is not that everyone participates, or even a lot of people. The success is in the quality of the thinking, that goes into participating, the degree of penetrative rational capacity that participants, and observers develop, even if only three people. It would please Prabhupada, who was willing to be pleased, if he made only ONE pure devotee. And we do not doubt him. So, if this group leans towards soft-headedness, seeking to be popular, we would consider it a hands-down failure.
Mind you, komalas are always a majority, madhyamas are always a minority. By sheer numerical superiority, they want to meddle, and dictate and impose, their mediocre standard on others. This will not happen on this site.
Since Prabhupada wanted to facilitate the practice of independent thoughtfulness, and we have failed to create such an atmosphere for this practice, in any locality that we are aware of. Our hope is that this site would be the facility for that; having called the site Saragrahi.
The focus of those on Saragrahi.org is to seek essences, and TRUTH, not to dictate how it should be put before them. So, our own stuff comes under such scrutiny. We believe this is a core value of the Bhagavata philosophy.
When readers of this site read a posting, the aim should be to extract essence, and not make an issue of the author’s style or manner of presentation. It is entirely up to each reader to sift the data and find the substance.
Compassion is to feel for a person’s plight of being mired in illusion, gross and subtle. And to cut through that, is real compassion.
Segment 3 Part 1: An author should accept responsibility for his own feelings.; and an author should expect that on this site, others will do likewise
An author should not accept responsibility for others’ feelings. An author should accept responsibility for his own feelings. And an author should expect that on this site, others will do likewise, because that is such a rudimentary lesson of the Bhagavad-gita; rather than the society or social groups, idea of making others responsible for your feelings, which is a way to gag people from being honest with each other.
And if an author’s style is objectionable to anyone, or people find there is not enough content in what the author offers, then they are free to skip over these efforts. Anyone is free to skip over others that they find hollow, or their style gets up their nose. That is not to say that they would never make a suggestion about someone’s style, but to talk incessantly about it, on the forum, and to float simplistic “philosophy” to justify it, well, that is just not a good stance for anyone. Mostly everyone believes in freedom of speech. But on this site, we want to see intelligent speech. Why not? This is “Saragrahi” after all.
In regards to “the newcomers”, which is of a big concern for may Vaisnava organizations, and thus they put a lot of significances on them. Previously, this site was not oriented for the newcomers. Time, place, and circumstance, means that there has to be an adjustment in this regard. This site will also provide material, essays, treatises, papers, and dialog, that will educate a newcomer to the REAL Krishna-consciousness, and to the REAL Mission that Srila Prabhupada desired. This is not a recruitment site. Although newcomers are welcomed to come and listen and participate if they can, this is not the purpose of this site or its concern. This site is all about old-timers developing their capacity to think clearly, and so forth, penetrating the philosophy together? Remember, the Sanskrit word for philosophy is darshana, meaning “to see.” So, what about that concern? Why must everything be about recruiting, while old timers are “stagnating?” What about “preaching among themselves”? Saragrahi.org is the ideal site for that.
Again, I emphasis with all my heart. After 45 years, “time, place and circumstance”, has made it mandatory that we build a strong class of madhyamas. Why is this so necessary, you may ask? The reason is because they will be the one who provide ‘siksa”, and be the “sika-gurus”, that komalas will need, so they can be raised to the madhyama platform. Moreover, this activity will facilitate advanced madhyamas to elevate themselves to the uttama platform, and thus be eligible to be diksa-gurus. It would be kind of inconsiderate, to make advancement as a madhyama, and leave the komalas behind. Hey! Why not string them along, and pull them up to the madhyama platform, and save them from their komala status.
(Continued in Pat 2)
Segments 3 Part 2
It pains my heart, that Srila Prabhupada wanted to create a new class of real and tore brahmanas, but instead, ISKCON is just one bunch of kanistha-adhikaris, stuck in the komala-place. They have fallen into the ISKCON DECEPTION; someone, or something, needs to save them. Saragrahi.org will provide for this facility too. If you are someone who fits this shoe, so to speak, then read the Featured Presentation A Treatise “Moving-Forward”, it has been written especially for you; it will free you from the ISKCON DECEPTION, and it will awaken you to understand exactly what Srila Prabhupada’s Mission was supposed to be like. Please understand, it is not my concocted ideas or notions. All I have done is take what is written in Srila Prabhupada books, recorded lectures, walks, interviews, etc.; and used the art of writing in English Prose, to the best of my ability.
In this regard, I took siksa from a person by the name of Sole Stein who wrote a book entitled “Stein on Writing”. Stein On Writing: A Master Editor of Some of the Most Successful Writers of Our Century Shares His Craft Techniques and Strategies. Stein on Writing provides immediately useful advice for all writers of fiction and nonfiction, whether they are newcomers or old hands, students or instructors, amateurs or professionals. As the always clear and direct Stein explains in his book,
“This is not a book of theory. It is a book of usable solutions–how to fix writing that is flawed, how to improve writing that is good, how to create interesting writing in the first place.”
With examples from bestsellers as well as from students’ drafts, Stein offers detailed sections on characterization, dialogue, pacing, flashbacks, trimming away flabby wording, the so-called “triage” method of revision, using the techniques of fiction to enliven nonfiction, and more.
Free speech is that anyone can say what he or she thinks, and everyone else is free to read it or not.
- There may be posts, by certain persons, that someone else will simply not read at all.
- There may be posts by, certain persons that someone else will simply just scan.
- And there may be posts, by certain persons that someone else will never fail to read.
So, this site’s approach is that all, are free to speak, and everyone else is also free to decide whom they tune in to, or pass over. That is free speech.
Not the idea that we have to speak like this, and like that because of “them,” “feelings,” and newcomers, and because when Prabhupada spoke frankly, it was because he was with high-ranking people who were “proud.”
A site called Saragrahi should be somewhat intimidating, just by the nature of the enterprise. Yes, a wide variety is welcomed and very nice if they have something intelligent to say. Saragrahi.org is not a safe place for stupidity. Those who wish to contribute varieties of verbal vomit, should be made to feel unwelcome. The pseudo-intelligent, (a person who wants to be thought of as having a lot of intelligence and knowledge, but who is not really intelligent or knowledgeable), should not be encouraged, although they are also free to post; and indeed, they will. And the downright asinine, are also free to post, and indeed there will be some of them too. And hopefully, if they listen, they will get a grip, and control the urge to speak. But Saragrahi.org, will not encourage them, in the name of variety, or in the name of civility.
If someone posts foolish ideas, then s/he should expect them to get hashed, trashed, and mashed. And if s/he has a true aptitude for being a Saragrahi, s/he will be appreciative and stick around, and learn how to hold their ground, with logic and reason that is based on Sastra. So, anyone may speak, and then stand or fall in the public, and if s/he is silly or stupid, and persists, then they may get an invitation to go to another part of town, and that is good for them, and for this site as well.
In all cases, we should expect that our efforts would be put under rational critical scrutiny. Because this is what madhyamas or Saragrahis do; they face life, with an alert analytical eye. Not taking a 6 for a 9. Blue for yellow. Up for down. Or “doo-doo” for halava. It is their default way of functioning, you see. But they do so against the backdrop of reason and philosophy, not social convention, the herd’s point of view, and the various sentiments we have taken on board, in the name of philosophy, and human decency, and worrying about “feeling” more than about whether people make good sense.
Segments 4 Part 1 : A Person of Integrity
Scott Peck is a man many people respect. He is a thoughtful man. He is so concerned about civility, he wrote a whole book about it, yet he also says this, about the person of integrity:
” One of the things a calling to be an individual of integrity means, is a calling to speak out, to be outspoken. We are called to overcome the psychology of helplessness, of reticence. If we see a lie, we are called to name it a lie. If we see insanity, we are called to name it as such. . . Yes, there are some who may find it upsetting, but perhaps they need to be upset. There are others who will respond to your outspokenness, with gratitude for that leadership that gives them the courage to speak out about it.”
You may say Scott is not a follower of Lord Chaitanya, but this site is saying that a follower of Lord Chaitanya in fact accepts this view of integrity wholesale, as indicated by quotes posted on this site by Prabhupada and Bhaktisiddhanta. We all should accept it. Naming silly sentiments as such, calling lies, lies, not being seduced by pseudo-philosophy, the whole nine yards, with malice towards none.
Srila Prabhupada puts Mr. Pecks words into Krishna-consciousness terms in his Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.4-5.
Srila Prabhupada wrote in his Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.4-5:
“Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are, for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straightforward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief, and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth.”
Like when friends spar in martial arts school. It is to help both people, and your opponent is your friend, but you still throw the bugger 20 feet if you can. Do you hate him? Not at all. Later, he can have dinner at your table. That’s all.
If we would all learn to be open and straightforward people, what a relief that would be for all of us. What a foundation for love and trust. But if we use philosophy to obfuscate, rather than clarify, because our real agenda is fear to be ourselves, fear to live with integrity in social interactions. Fear to say,
“My gracious, but you do talk a lot of drivel, Prabhu.”
Of course we baffle ourselves first with the philosophy, and then things proceed from there. And our other agenda is to be popular, giving or getting a nice stroking. And if we meet someone who does not go along, we start “preaching.” And if that does not work, we try to isolate them from the herd. We who are serious about simple living and high thinking, should be alert to all this foolishness.
According to Prabhupada, writing is for the smart ones, those of brahminical nature. Not for all and miscellaneous. Makes a shipload of sense. So, the Forum is open to anyone to have a go, and not say something “too foolish,” but for those who cannot cut it, give us a break, move to the side. Listen. Or else we will give your drivel the treatment it deserves. We do not want to be reticent and helpless, while privately thinking, “Gee whiz, what a jerk.”
As a matter of fact, Saragrahi.org is a great place to sort this all out, but first you have to be willing to deal with people who call a spade a spade, people whose first concern is making sense and NOT making each other feel warm and fuzzy. So, if anyone is going to wince too much and invoke “civility” then that soul is pretty much in the wrong part of town. No big deal, really, just call a cab and move on out.
(Continued in Part 2)
Segment 4 Part 2
In relation to free speech, a wise woman[1] said:
“I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life, your right to say it.”
This attitude is profound. It attends to one of the most basic needs in thinking persons, and demonstrates genuine respect for the individual in spite of whatever differences there may be.
The following is taken from an article posted on the “Old Saragrahi.org”, in which this became an issue for some. It expresses the sincere mood of a person resisting, and protesting oppression; a person setting boundaries in order to avoid being violated:
This individual wrote:
“You want me to walk to your tune, and that is what I protest and resent, far more so than your point of view; for however you may justify it, the end result is that you, and the civility brigade, want me to function according to your lights, your realization, trying to make decisions for me, that are my call to make. Meanwhile, I want to function according to my realization. You are trying to dictate to me, and at the same time you imply, that you desire free speech. Well then, why do articles by you and others try to make me conform to your conception about how I ought to speak? Is that free?”
The “New Saragrahi.org” facilitators wish to express this website’s specific vision and position about free speech and civility.
If we fail to honor this basic need of thinking men and women, are not we being uncivil?
Put another way, if on the plea of preventing feathers from being ruffled, we establish rules that deny a person the right to exercise his individuality, “are not we ruffling his feathers?”
And, ironically, in denying a person the right to speak as he chooses, “are not we, while deliberating on the most personal philosophy, behaving impersonally?
Bhaktivinoda Thakura makes a distinction between two kinds of mindsets of two kinds of spiritual seekers, the komala shraddha and the madhyama adhikari.
In a nutshell, the komala shraddhas (those with tender faith) tend to be very literal and simplistic in their spirituality, cleaving to tradition and so forth.
And the madhyamas; well, they tend to require a rational basis for their beliefs. They find great appeal in statements such as “worships Me with his intelligence.” They get inspiration from things such as: “speaks with logic and reason based on shastra (scripture), and has faith (shraddha) that is not blind”.
Bhaktivinoda reckons that preaching that is inspiring to the komalas does not inspire the madhyamas, who find it somewhat infantile at least some of the time. And preaching that is inspiring to the madhyamas, may ruin the faith of the komalas. Moreover, Bhaktivinoda holds that most of the shastras and tikas (commentaries), etc. have been written for the komalas, or at least largely with them in mind.
Now, both of these types of seekers are eligible for Krishna bhakti. Let us be clear on this point, and I will soon cite Srila Prabhupada on this very point. However, having said that; let me point out that these two types are not equally eligible for bhakti. I repeat: The komala shraddha is not as eligible for bhakti as the madhyama. Bhaktivinoda considers the madhyama on a better footing of eligibility than the komala shraddhas.
Hence his choice of “tender faith” to classify them.
(Continued in Part 2)